Posts by THE GLADIATOR

207

On becoming atheist - the tug of war

by Nickolas in

perhaps, if you are a theist, you might not want to read this.

if you are nevertheless curious about how an atheist thinks, then please read on.. i don't think there are any active members of this board who have been atheists all their lives (are there?).

i think virtually all of us transitioned into non-belief from a religious beginning.

THE GLADIATOR

When it comes to evolution we have no need to ‘believe in’ it. We either do or do not accept it as an important part of the process for all life on earth. Some of the vilest people on earth accept evolution and embrace the idea that the survival of the fittest is a good moral code to adopt.

Whether or not we accept evolution at a mental level, at a molecular level we are all part of the evolutionary process anyway; whereas, the gift of eternal life is not on offer to those who merely accept the existence of a god of their choice. Faith and action are required. Faith without works is dead according to the zealous Paul.

To be a believer requires trying to help those who lack faith in their god to gain salvation and living by a set moral code. That is according to the bible which many Christians now dismiss as folklore. Muslims continue to believe the Koran to be inspired and holy.

It is possible to accept evolution but remain free to hold whatever cherished beliefs we wish to. Some Christians manage this amazing conjuring trick, which impresses me greatly.

82

first contradiction in the bible?

by cptkirk in

contradiction without the use of an outside medium (such as archaeology, fossil study).

i just stumbled on this after reading the thread about adam and the sexual subliminal message.

i was thinking about adam and eve and chronology, and a contradiction popped up in my head...so i picked up the bible and there it is.. gen 1:27 - god creates adam and eve, tells them to be fruitful.. gen 2:18 - now adam is alone?

THE GLADIATOR

First contradiction: 'In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.'

So where did our heavenly father reside before he created the heavens?

207

On becoming atheist - the tug of war

by Nickolas in

perhaps, if you are a theist, you might not want to read this.

if you are nevertheless curious about how an atheist thinks, then please read on.. i don't think there are any active members of this board who have been atheists all their lives (are there?).

i think virtually all of us transitioned into non-belief from a religious beginning.

THE GLADIATOR

An interesting discussion.

I have read all the posts but have nothing worth contributing.

18

Another Couple/Few Sincere Questions, for all, if I may:

by AGuest in

jw
friends

may you all have peace!

in light of some discussions on the board lately, i would like to ask... and hope you can be sincere in your response:.

which concerns you more: truth... or consensus?is truth, in your opinion, only that which is known/has been proven (however you deem "proof") thus far?can something be true, albeit not yet proven?does truth "change"?please know that i am not looking for right or wrong answers/responses.

THE GLADIATOR

Truth is a very difficult thing to nail down. It can be a slippery customer. T here is eternal truth and truth of the moment. If I say it’s midnight , I have to clarify which time zone I am referring to. If it really is midnight in that zone, I have spoken the truth. A moment later it’s no longer midnight . The claim was true at the time, so I made a true statement. If I believe it to be midnight but my watch is slow, I have been tricked into making a false claim. So truth will always depend on accurate information.

That’s a very simple example. More complicated claims can be impossible to prove. Therefore we can only unanimously accept something as true when it has been proven. It has been said that everyone has their own truth. This is true but refers to subjective truth.

Being human we still have a limited view of the world and universe. Most of the mysteries of the universe are beyond our ability to prove, so for the present they remain mysteries. As humans we have very poor tools for establishing absolute truth in abstract things so sometimes 'accepted truth' is arrived at by consensus, as in a court case.

That's my take on truth but it won't be entirely accurate because the subject is much bigger than me.

47

For those who do not believe in the Bible: Why don't you?

by Chemical Emotions in

jw
friends

i don't believe in the bible either, but i'm just curious as to why others don't.

ridiculous misogyny and mass murder by a petty little god are two reasons for me.

(ilovehigh-lighting) .

THE GLADIATOR

"For those who do not believe in the Bible: Why don't you?"

For the same reason I don’t believe in the Koran

68

Christians used to be sure of what they believed...

by THE GLADIATOR in

jw
friends

recent events on this board have got me thinking, which is no small feat.

christians are arguing more with each other than with atheists.. christians used to be sure of what they believed solid in their faith and certain of its foundation cornerstone and what he was called.

only non-believers cast doubt and were crushed under a mountain of bible passages that were heaped upon them.

THE GLADIATOR

And thank you to you dear AGuest.

Salute!

24

A quote to brighten up your Monday!

by SweetBabyCheezits in

jw
friends

"once upon a time, in some out of the way corner of that universe which is dispersed into numberless twinkling solar systems, there was a star upon which clever beasts invented knowing.

that was the most arrogant and mendacious minute of "world history," but nevertheless, it was only a minute.

after nature had drawn a few breaths, the star cooled and congealed, and the clever beasts had to die.. one might invent such a fable, and yet he still would not have adequately illustrated how miserable, how shadowy and transient, how aimless and arbitrary the human intellect looks within nature.

THE GLADIATOR

Going back to the opening post; sad as it seems the situation for humans does seem less than ideal.

I sometimes listen to the late philosopher & spiritual entertainer Alan Watts on CD. One of his lectures is called ‘The level of magnification.’

Everything we look at appears different the closer or further we get from it. If we look at the earth from 5,000,000 miles away and a time span

of say 900,000,000 years, our whole perspective of humanity would change…ect.

It's humbling to realize that in the grand scheme of things I am just a time-bound prick!

68

Christians used to be sure of what they believed...

by THE GLADIATOR in

jw
friends

recent events on this board have got me thinking, which is no small feat.

christians are arguing more with each other than with atheists.. christians used to be sure of what they believed solid in their faith and certain of its foundation cornerstone and what he was called.

only non-believers cast doubt and were crushed under a mountain of bible passages that were heaped upon them.

THE GLADIATOR

Greetings! I have just returned from going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. Things here seemed to have calmed down. Thanks you all for your comments.

Stillthinking. NewChapter. AGuest. Twitch. OnTheWayOut. Tammy(tec)Vandahoven7. mosch. Band on the run. Shepherd. Joey Jo-Jo. SweetBabyCheezits. MrFalcon. OUTLAW. Cantleave. Deist. EntirelyPossible. BrokenPromises. PSacramento. Wobble. the-luminator81.

I have read your responses carefully and found them helpful and well thought out. I know it’s encouraging to get a reply to every post you make but it’s not always possible or desirable for me to respond to every post. This thread addresses a sensitive subject and sometimes it is best to see which direction the subject takes without unnecessary guidance from me.

There is subjective reality and objective reality. The person, who believes that their experience is real and involves external influence, will usually insist that their experience, although not provable is objective. Alas, improvable experiences remain subjective until they are proven. I don’t make these rules; it’s just the way it is, how our language works.

Through debate we seek to examine beliefs and claims and see if they can become objective to the world at large. It’s understandable that those with strong convictions desire to eternalise and share their beliefs. If doing so causes them to be validated they are strengthened. If attempts to gain acceptance of these views fails, then defensive action is often taken to protect those views.

After all, we protect what we value. Whenever we share something we value, we take the risk is that it may be derided. Those that deride on either side of the debate are simply seeking to keep their own balance and protect their way of making sense of their life and finding a path thorough this difficult world.

Forgive me if I sound as though I am lecturing as I realize that you i ntelligent people already know all this.

Peace and may your gods go with you

68

Christians used to be sure of what they believed...

by THE GLADIATOR in

jw
friends

recent events on this board have got me thinking, which is no small feat.

christians are arguing more with each other than with atheists.. christians used to be sure of what they believed solid in their faith and certain of its foundation cornerstone and what he was called.

only non-believers cast doubt and were crushed under a mountain of bible passages that were heaped upon them.

THE GLADIATOR

It's Gladiator's thread. Carry on with him and forget everything I said.

Thanks OnTheWayOut but this is everybody's thread and people should express how they feel. We all see the theist non-theist debate from our own perspective.

Many believers have become atheists and many atheists have become believers. We are all subject to change and robust debate is essential to the process.

68

Christians used to be sure of what they believed...

by THE GLADIATOR in

jw
friends

recent events on this board have got me thinking, which is no small feat.

christians are arguing more with each other than with atheists.. christians used to be sure of what they believed solid in their faith and certain of its foundation cornerstone and what he was called.

only non-believers cast doubt and were crushed under a mountain of bible passages that were heaped upon them.

THE GLADIATOR

I have just returned from an annual chilli festival in West Dean Sussex UK. Tasted some mighty hot chillies but was not prepared for the heat on this thread.

With regard to my ‘jealousy’ towards Shelby hearing from Jesus, I believe I have adequately explained myself. Nevertheless I would like to share a moment from my past.

When I was a boy we had very little in the way of material things. My brothers were always bored with nothing to play with. I was never bored. Fortunately I had a vivid imagination. I could conjure up anything I wanted in my imagination. I had imaginary conversations with people. I heard voices and made friends with people who existed only in my mind. I could make up jokes, tell them to myself and laugh out loud when I got to the punch line.

I even had a horse that I could gallop down the road to the local store on. The lady store owner always asked how the horse was and gave me free nuts to feed it. I also had a panda that was so real he had a small chair of his own to sit on. Occasionally a place was set at the table for the panda.

One day I announced that the panda had gone. My father asked where? I told him that didn’t need him any more. Soon after, the horse went too. Now I have to live in the real world. I envy people who are still capable of such illusion.

Peace